I’ve given much thought as to whether or not I wanted to post about this. It’s a longish story that is true, and is told here to provide an example as to why we always have to be on guard. Those images are screen shots. I removed information that would reveal the username of the person I use as an example, and the name of the website.
I hope it serves to remind us about being cautious on social websites, particularly nudist sites. It’s not to call anyone out or disparage any particular person or website.
Some folks like to say that people are different now than they were 50, 100, or more years ago.
I don’t agree. Our lifestyles are different because of technology. People are still people, we merely have vastly increased our ability to interact, share information and live easier lifestyles. Society may change because of convenience, but Human Nature hasn’t . People are people.
I dare say most of us aren’t getting up before dawn to tend livestock, living without electricity, plumbing, and all that life 150 years ago entailed. Our lives are very different than those of our fore bearers because of electricity, plumbing, automation and other technological advances. We have exponentially more free time than the generations who came before us. One of the biggest differences that I see between the generations of yesteryear and today is Information Technology, especially the internet.
The web puts the world at our fingertips… and straight into our houses. I used to call the internet “The World’s Best Library”, because instead of having to go to a physical building and search through card catalogs, get help from a Librarian, and simply hope that the library actually had any information on the topic in question we simply boot up the computer and type in whatever we are seeking, then the internet brings all of the related information directly to us in the comfort of our home. Of course, this was before shadow banning and the realization that even the big search engines are not only limiting what we can find in order to manipulate us and our society, they keep track of absolutely everything we do.
Even with all of that, I am still thankful that I am alive and well in the age when the internet exists, but I do see it as a two edged sword now, and something to be treated with awareness and caution.
Take Nudism and Naturism for example. How many of us would have risked exposing our interest or participation in these lifestyles back in the days before the internet by going to our local library and asking the librarian for help with locating information on nudism? Sure, some would. However, many would not have as the risk of being unfairly judged and outed could be great.
In the age of the internet however, we simply search for nudism, nudist organizations, nudist groups, etc., and there on our screens is more information than we can click through! All in the privacy of our home. It’s easy to find others who share our views on nudism, network with them, etc.
The thing is… it’s easier for some to express their personal nature online than in real life. There is less risk of immediate and “in real life” consequences for expressing unpopular or even degenerate views online than there is if done in person. It’s easier still if they are not revealing who they are.
People can be “anyone they want to be” online. Think you’re chatting or interacting with a genuine nudist? Maybe you are, maybe you’re not.
When my family first got on the web back in the 1990’s, it was vastly different than the web we see today. It probably seems very naive now, but back then it came as a shock to discover that some people were intentionally misrepresenting who they were. It simply did not occur to me at first why someone would lie about their gender, age, circumstances, etc.
Within a few days, we had all learned about that risk, and some of the reasons other people would do that. Back then, you really were anonymous online unless you divulged true information about yourself. Even today, you are usually anonymous to other end users. It is shocking what some people will do, say, etc. when they believe that they are anonymous.
Over the last two decades, I have had my own social nudist websites, and have helped with many others. During that time, we saw patterns emerging that would come to serve as “red flags” or warning signs as to the intent of any particular person. These patterns usually indicated that a person was pretending to be someone they were not, and/or were actually interested in something other than what they indicated.
When I saw someone exhibiting one or more of those patterns, I would usually go along far enough to let them reveal their real interests. I still do that today. I’d rather know what someone is truly interested in so that I can tell who I need to avoid contact with and who appears to be safe.
In 2009 I joined a social nudist site that is Christian oriented. At first it was enjoyable. I met several online friends, there were some good conversations via the forums, and there was a plethora of topics to choose from.
Unfortunately, there were also allot of arguments over doctrine; i.e.- which denomination of Christianity was “right”, which version of the Bible was acceptable, etc. It got to the point where these differences detracted so much from the forums in general that I simply decided to leave. No animosity, no “blistering” exit post. I just quit logging in.
Several years later, I was contacted by the founder of that site via a nudist blog that I had. He praised my blog and the way I kept illustrating that nudism and sex are not related, how nudism is beneficial to people of all ages, etc. Once he learned that I had been a member of his site in the past and why I left, he invited me to return assuring me that those issues had been remedied. I rejoined and saw that there had been a reduction of the inter-denominational vitriol that had caused me to leave his site a few years earlier.
After being invited to come back to the site I became fairly active there, logging in whenever I had a spare moment. I found some of my material had been gleaned from elsewhere on the web and posted in the forums by others, where it had been mostly praised. When I posted something, it was usually well received. I was enjoying the site much more than I had in the past as it seemed there were more people who viewed a variety of things similarly to the way my family does and there was much less denominational disagreement.
Sure, there were some things I didn’t agree with. One member took umbrage with an article of mine expressing my firm belief that nudism and sex are not inherently related. He labeled himself as an “edenistic” believer, and advocated the open display of erections and erotic behavior in familial nudist settings, insisting that is what our Heavenly Father intended.
So yeah, there was stuff that I didn’t agree with, but overall it was a much better place.
The owner of the site also asked for my help with their web presence on other services such as blogs and groups. I agreed to help but eventually bowed out.
Back then, I really didn’t have much time to be online on a day to day basis, and my helping out was turning into becoming a content provider and being more and more responsible for their blogs and groups. I was having trouble finding the time to run my own blogs and groups so I had to stop.
The only time I recall any Admin or Mod contacting me in a negative way was the result of my telling a joke in the joke of the day thread.
The joke I told?
Why did the blond get fired from the M+M factory? Because she kept throwing away all the ones that said “W”. It is a Christian forum folks, so basically it is limited to pretty tame stuff.
I received a PM advising that joke could be offensive.
I mentioned all of that not to pat myself on the back or make myself look good, but to illustrate my standing in that forum community, and to hopefully help you understand why what happened next caught me off guard.
One day I clicked on one of the new threads that came from an area of the forum where new members were encouraged to introduce themselves.
The person who started the thread simply posted that he was a single father raising a seven year old daughter and two stepsons, ages six and nine, that they practice home nudity and hope to go to a resort soon. I welcomed him to the site as did others.
The next day, he responded to the numerous welcomes by posting that:
Due to his first wife, his daughter is only allowed to be nude while swimming, that they have a pool, that he has full custody of his two stepsons, and his rule is that “they have to be naked after dusk”.
I deduced that he was referring to his two stepsons as he had already established that his daughter can only be nude while swimming.
That statement about requiring a six year old stepson and a nine year old stepson to be “naked after dusk” struck me as odd and cryptic. There is a world of difference between telling your kids that they are only allowed to be nude at certain times and having a rule forcing them to be. That seemed to be a rather weird thing to mention.
Thus far, he had included no other information of any sort. Not how long he had been a nudist, how he came to discover nudism, how he found the website, what part of the world he lived in, his age range, nothing at all about religion, etc. None of the stuff normally found in a post where one is introducing themselves to the other members of a group or forum.
He did not mention why his first wife was ok with the daughter skinny dipping but not being nude at any other time, whether his stepsons were part of a nudist family before he came into the picture and somehow gained full custody of them, how the biological parents of those two boys feel about them being required to be naked after dusk, or if the biological parents of those two boys even know about it.
He did not mention any other requirements in regard to nudity either. Nothing about sleeping, homework, tv/gaming time, supper, swimming, playing in the dirt or mud, nothing.
He did not advise why he forces them to be naked or why only after dusk.
So the subject of his short and cryptic posts dealt almost exclusively with having children and forcing two of them to be naked.
Making cryptic posts is an old ploy. Some people do it to drum up curiosity so others will engage with them, to seem mysterious, to seek attention, etc.
Sometimes it just happens because of posting in a hurry.
Others have done it in an attempt to communicate unspoken information, imply something they don’t want to state openly, etc. If you’re going to be cryptic with something you post, you should expect folks to ask you about it, and if you’re going to be cryptic with a post on a nudist forum in which you tell people you require your young stepsons to be naked after dusk, you should most definitely expect someone to ask about it. Especially if it is one of the first posts you make, and that was actually his third post anywhere on that entire forum.
My wife and I have never required nudity of anyone, even family members. Forcing someone to be nude for any reason other than a medical one (and yes, those do actually exist both physical and psychological) is something we see as inherently wrong. Thus, I wanted to learn more about this guy before I asked about this strange rule. Perhaps he had explained it elsewhere and I had simply missed it.
I clicked on the little link under his name which took me to his profile. There, I saw that he had been a member for five years, but had only made three posts, all within the last three weeks. I clicked on the link that would show me all of his posts. This is what I saw there-
His first post was on 06-23-18. He posted a comment under a photo depicting three nude teenagers in a thread about European nudism and European nudist media. His comment read “All three of those kids look great naked. Too bad we don’t have a teen nudist mag in the US”.
His second post was on 07-14-18. This was his introductory post where he stated he is single, has three kids, and lists their ages and genders.
His third post was on 07-15-18. This is the one stating his seven year old daughter is only allowed to be nude while swimming and that he requires his six and nine year old stepsons to be nude after dusk.
Member for five years, total of three posts all made in the last three weeks, all dealing directly and almost exclusively with nude children.
Alarms started going off. I felt compelled to inquire further about this.
Why would I feel compelled?
Several reasons, the greatest of which was to seek understanding of something which I did not and still do not understand; i.e.- the requirement that his two young stepsons be nude after dark.
After more than two decades of encountering people online with ulterior motives, my instincts were warning me about this. His three posts focused on naked children.
No other discussions. No other information. No other posts… in five years.
Sure I saw a pattern, but that did not mean he was a bad person. I was trying to determine if this was someone simply making short, cryptic posts or someone with questionable motives regarding children and nudism. Some other members, including one of the moderators, expressed that they too were concerned about his special rule and the lack of any transparency regarding it. What was the purpose of that rule and also what was the purpose of telling everyone the rule exists but nothing at all as to why?
So… I asked him about it. At this point I did not mention his lack of post history or that I was concerned because the few posts he had made all dealt with nude children. I did not mention that I have seen this pattern countless times, or what it usually indicated.
In my query:
I wasn’t hostile but I was clear. I think the words “straightforward” or “to the point” would apply.
I stipulated that I usually do not question people on personal decisions but I felt compelled to ask about this rule, particularly since he felt it necessary to tell us that it existed.
I addressed that although my wife and I have JOKED about requiring nudity if we ever put a swimming pool in (to discourage people who suddenly wanted to be friends because of the pool), we have never actually required nudity of anyone.
I stated that I realize those are his kids and it is his task to raise them but that I do not understand his motivation for mandating that his two stepsons be naked at night or the desired outcome.
I reiterated that we have never required nudity and that I cannot fathom a situation in which we would (even though I can, I just wasn’t going to offer a ready-made excuse).
I reiterated that I do not understand how a rule like that would come into being or what the objective is. Why state and then reiterate those things? To ensure that if his post was the type that was meant to communicate unspoken information of an unsavory nature, nobody reading my inquiry would mistake it for being interested in a bad way. It was meant to show concern, not interest.
That was it.
I didn’t make any accusations. I don’t think I implied anything torrid. He came onto a Christian oriented, family oriented nudist site and made these statements. Some of us felt concern because of them. I wanted to clear this up.
It’s best not to beat around the bush when dealing with something of that nature- get it cleared up right away.
Don’t stroll around the garden path, don’t be vague.
He declined to respond.
In fact, he didn’t post again in that thread. As of the last time I logged in, he had made only one more post anywhere on that site, and that was one asking for his account to be closed in which he stated that he would not be logging in to that account (not the site, just that account) because he had been criticized for the way he is raising his kids.
That is another typical action that I’ve seen. When someone overplays their hand and others start to question their motive, they leave. Often, they will make a final post filled with indignation, but they usually leave. Some will go back to lurking.
Just because someone decides to leave a site, even if they make an exit post filled with indignation, that still does not mean they are a bad person.
Asking why someone would force nudity upon young boys at night is not criticism, it is an inquiry. Stating that someone is wrong for doing so is criticism. I had stated that my wife and I see forced nudity as inherently wrong, but I did not apply that belief to anyone else. I asked what his motivation was and what he hoped to achieve with this requirement.
In other words… Tell us why you mentioned that you force your stepsons to be naked (his word) after dusk since you made a point of telling everyone you do that in the first place.
Did this guy “owe” me or anyone else who expressed concern an explanation? Nope. He could have said that.
None of your business
I’d rather not say
See how easy that is? I just popped three responses up right there.
There are a multitude of responses he could have made that, whether they were true or not, may have quelled the alarm that several of us felt. Perhaps the actual reason a stepdad would force his two young stepsons to be “naked after dusk” would have been a good one for him to respond with..
Had he chosen to respond, perhaps his reasoning would have been something of benefit to others.
I saw allot of folks assuming his reason, providing their own potential reasons, but I didn’t see him say anything else about it.
Some other members and moderators however, leapt to his defense, most taking issue with my question, claiming that I was implying horrible things about him.
If I truly felt that this guy was that bad, I simply would have private messaged all of the moderators or emailed the owner.
I didn’t choose that route. I had no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise showing he was bad. This was still up in the air for several of us, and we were seeking clarification.
I wanted to give this guy the chance to clear up what may have been a misunderstanding. One that immediately caused concern with several people.
What ensued was a veritable storm of vitriol, accusations, and argument, most of it in support of the single dad while lambasting me, as well as others, for having the gall to ask him about his special rule.
There were posts pleading with him to stay.
Pleading with a guy to stay who had made three posts in his five years on that site, all of which addressed nude children and nothing else.
It now alarmed me that there was a small but rather vocal group of people upset that this anonymous single dad who forces his young stepsons to be naked would be questioned about it and was thus saying he was not logging back into that account.
What is that small vocal group’s motivation for pleading with him to stay? Surely it was not mere member retention as I have never seen such response when anyone else stated they were leaving, even when it was long time members with many posts.
Since I was being lambasted publicly, I responded publicly. I explained why I had the gall to ask him about it. I listed many of the above reasons that served to compel me to make that inquiry. I also reminded people that I had made no implications or accusations, merely an inquiry.
That didn’t matter to some of them. The hate and indignation kept on a rollin’.
I was told nobody should ever question a parent’s decisions regarding their children. Well, to a point I agree. However, not all parents are good people. In fact, we have in this country people who are paid to question some decisions made by parents. Those folks are usually referred to as Child Protective Services.
CPS are not always the good guys either, but some of them do try and the very existence of their jobs is a result of poor parenting decisions that endanger children. So… yeah, sometimes it’s prudent to ask about a parenting decision.
I was told that it was nobody’s business why he forces his 6 year old and 9 year old stepsons to be naked after dusk. Hmmm… Seems he made it our business when he put that information up in such a vague way on a public forum. Surely he could foresee that someone would ask about something so unusual and cryptically described.
This all took place over the period of a few days. During that time, I was in contact with some others via email regarding it. I am not the only person who saw this pattern. I am not the only one who felt alarmed and concerned. However, it does seem that because I was the first one to ask for an explanation, I was viewed as the chief bad guy or at least one of them.
During those days, I encountered another thread I viewed as very unacceptable and brought it to the attention of some Mods.
That thread was posted by someone supposedly talking about a friend of theirs who’s family had just recently gotten involved with nudism. Two young girls and a young boy were frequently mentioned. It quickly progressed to mentioning how the two sisters were “curious” about their brother’s penis.
It then progressed to a post stating the sisters had physically interacted with their brother’s penis to satisfy their curiosity, to which someone replied that they were “happy” to hear of the girl’s “learning experience“.
Read that again.
Think about that. Now, recall that this is supposed to be a forum on a CHRISTIAN oriented nudist site.
Those posts remained. Their presence along with the tempest in a teacup throw down about the single dad, combined with some revelations by some of the people I was in contact with changed my view of a site that I had gained enjoyment from. It now looked darker, less family friendly, and willing to play host to people that I not only do not want to associate with, but most certainly do not want trying to associate with my family.
I have not logged back into or visited that site since. No “exit” post, no whining, no martyred requests that my account be closed. I just stopped visiting it.
We do NOT condone the display of erections and erotic behavior in a family nudist setting. We don’t condone it in any nudist setting whether children are present or not. Once eroticism becomes involved, it’s not a nudist setting anymore.
We do NOT condone forcing someone to be nude in the absence of a legitimate need.
We do NOT condone allowing two sisters physically interacting with their own brother’s penis to satisfy their “curiosity”.
We do NOT condone allowing a comment regarding that to state that the commentator is happy for those girl’s “learning experience”.
Yes, children are curious by nature. We as the parents and/or adults are charged with protecting them- even from themselves if we see that their curiosity is leading them into potential harm.
There is allot of good on that site. Good people, good information, good fellowship. Alas, even with all of that good, when a website goes so far as to allow material of that nature, it is time to make a decision. I decided to walk away. I have no desire to be associated with that kind of stuff or with those types of people. Sure, people have different opinions. People have different beliefs. However, I believe that there comes a point where opinions and beliefs cross a line. When that happens, it’s up to each of us to decide what we are responsible for doing.
Am I saying I’m “better” than those folks? Not at all. We are ALL children of the Father, ALL loved by Him. That does not mean that I’m going to associate with that kind of behavior though.
Are we anti-sex? Nope. Sex is a gift from God. However, He does have specific rules regarding it that we should follow.
I have since been contacted by a member of that forum and advised that some of my posts there have been edited by some of the moderators who took umbrage with some of us asking that single dad about his special rule. I stand by what I posted. I surely hope that whoever edited them had the moral integrity to note that the post was edited by them and thus is not what I originally posted. Anything else is dishonest.
So… why am I putting this here? To serve as a reminder to all of us that the person on the other side of the screen may or may not be whom you believe them to be! To remind us that even if a group or forum we belong to seems great, there could be stuff going on behind the scenes that we need to pay attention to if it comes to light.
Make no mistake folks, we are targets. In the decades of nudist work I’ve done on the web I can tell you the number ONE problem I have seen firsthand: People with ulterior motives.
Nudist sites are heavily targeted by people with ulterior motives and constant vigilance is required to keep them safe for us all. People with ulterior motives are not going to introduce themselves and openly state that they’re really not there for nudism but instead are looking for something else.
Nudist oriented social sites seem to be one of the best ways for nudists to network. We can go to an online place that is specifically for nudists, meet new friends, and have some online fellowship with others about nudism and it’s role and impact in our lives. We can gain insight and knowledge from each other, find out about good places to be nude, and get advice.
Poke around the sites you are a member of. Interact with the others and let them reveal what they’re really interested in. Draw them out if you need to. Then you will have a better idea of whom you are dealing with, and whether or not it would be a good idea to continue dealing with them!
Be vigilant. Sure it may just be someone with a different lifestyle, opinion, etc. However, if it raises your suspicion then you should pay attention.
Ask for clarification. Get it cleared up right away.
It might be nothing, or it might be something that later on down the road you wish you had nipped in the bud. Yep, when online people can be whomever they want to be, but sooner or later many of them will reveal who they really are.